Mame Mbaye Niang dit tout sur Khalifa Sall, Karim Wade, Idrissa Seck…

Responsable à l’Alliance pour la République (Apr) et ministre du Tourisme, Mame Mbaye Niang revient dans cet entretien accordé à Tribune, sur plusieurs questions relatives au procès de Khalifa Sall, le cas Karim Wade, la « percée » d’Idrissa Seck en pré-campagne, ou encore les rapports de l’Apr avec l’opposition et le Benno dans la perspective de la présidentielle de 2019. À cœur ouvert !

 

Monsieur le ministre, quelles appréciations faites-vous du déroulement du procès de Khalifa Ababacar Sall ?

C’est un procès qui est en train de se dérouler et qui concerne un homme accusé de détournement de deniers publics et d’autres délits. Nos concitoyens le suivent et se rendent de plus en plus compte que ce n’étaient pas de fausses accusations qui sont portées contre le maire de Dakar, parce que des actes compromettants ont été posés. Donc, la justice va trancher. Encore une fois, il n’y a rien de politique dans le procès, même s’il engage des acteurs politiques. Au tribunal, on n’a pas demandé à Khalifa Sall s’il est candidat ou s’il est même du Parti socialiste (Ps) ou de Benno bokk yakaar.

 

Des noms sont cités dans le procès dont celui du Président Macky Sall qui aurait sollicité le maire de Dakar à travers la caisse d’avance. Il y a aussi Abdou Mbow qu’on cite, ou encore Youssou Ndour et bien d’autres… Votre position là-dessus ?

En vérité, la stratégie de la défense consiste tout simplement à mouiller pas mal de personnalités. Mais, si nous en revenons aux principes, il est trop simple de défendre avoir donné au Président Macky Sall ou à Youssou Ndour de l’argent. Une telle position ne peut pas le dédouaner. Je pense qu’à Dmedia, si le comptable détourne de l’argent pour le donner aux journalistes, il est le seul responsable de son acte.

Donc, je pense que lorsque l’on procède à des dons, quand on a l’intention d’aider une personne, si c’est fondé sur la bonté et la générosité, cela devrait se faire à partir de fonds propres. Mais, pas des fonds publics. En wolof, il y a une expression qui dit : « mayel lo mom » (offre de ce qui t’appartient en propre : Ndlr). Imaginez que je vous offre une voiture à la suite de notre rencontre…

Il est certain que vous seriez content. Mais, si c’est un véhicule de l’État, il est encore certain que ma responsabilité est engagée. L’autre vérité est qu’il y a des fonds dans la nomenclature budgétaire de la mairie de Dakar estimés à 3,5 milliards Cfa par année et dédiés aux soutiens en tout genre. Je pense que le débat au tribunal pourra aider les Sénégalais à comprendre qu’il n’y a rien de politique, car il s’agit de faux et d’usage de faux.

 

Mais les actes posés sentent la politique ! N’est-ce pas pour éviter qu’il puisse vous causer des problèmes en 2019 ?

Désolé, ce n’est pas de cela qu’il s’agit. Et puis, en quoi Khalifa Sall peut-il nous causer des problèmes ? Je pose la question…

 

Parce que vous avez tout simplement décidé de l’écarter, de l’écraser et de le mettre en prison !

Mais non ! Encore une fois, ce n’est pas cela qu’il s’agit. Il n’y a rien de politique ! Mais, pour aller droit à votre question, il faut rappeler que nous sortons de trois exercices électoraux démocratiques. En dehors des Locales, Khalifa Sall a été battu dans son propre bureau de vote lors du Référendum. Aux Législatives, le camp de Khalifa Sall a encore été battu. Alors, pourquoi devrons-nous avoir peur de ce monsieur ? Il n’y a aucune raison objective… Maintenant, il doit dire la vérité aux Sénégalais. Et puis, j’ajoute que des informations que je détiens, c’est le Président Wade qui lui a dit de citer tout le monde.

 

Sont-ce là encore des accusations purement politiciennes ?

Ben non ! Je vous dis bien que ce sont les informations dont je dispose. C’est Wade qui lui a soufflé cette stratégie de défense. Ce qui veut dire que demain, il peut même me citer. Pourtant, Dieu sait que je ne l’ai vu qu’une seule fois au stade et j’ai beaucoup de respect pour lui.

 

Karim Wade exilé, Khalifa Sall en procès… vous vous dites que la voie est libre ?

 

Mais d’autres personnes sont aussi en prison et d’autres ont voyagé…

 

Ces personnes dont vous faites allusion ne sont pas des candidats à la présidentielle 2019…

 

D’accord ! Mais Karim Wade a quitté le Sénégal vers 4 heures du matin. Il est passé voir son marabout, un de ses amis et son avocat. Quand il quittait le pays, il n’était pas menotté. Des gens ont même dit que c’est lui-même qui a changé le plan de vol parce qu’il était prévu qu’il aille en France.

 

Et la présence du Procureur du Qatar ?

Ce qui est sûr et qui est bon à retenir, est que Karim Wade est une personne libre. Il appelle ses amis, ses militants, les responsables de son parti. Qui l’a déjà entendu dire de sa bouche qu’il est exilé ? Ce sont d’autres personnes qui font cette affirmation.

 

Lui-même a parlé des conditions de sa libération…

Karim Wade a été gracié en même temps que 45 Sénégalais. Ensuite, il a décidé de partir au Qatar. Il est de notoriété publique qu’il est très proche de plusieurs dignitaires de ce pays. Je ne vais pas parler à sa place tout en sachant qu’il est aussi libre que moi. En tout cas, je considère qu’il n’est pas en exil.

 

Donc, il peut rentrer au pays ?

Il suffit d’acheter un billet et de rentrer au pays ! Il jouit de l’ensemble de ses facultés et peut donc éclairer la lanterne des Sénégalais. Maintenant, il a été condamné pour des éléments connus. Il nous faut nous poser des questions pour savoir pourquoi des gens veulent alimenter ce débat sur un exil qui n’existe pas ?

 

Sur un autre registre, au niveau de l’Apr comme de Benno bokk yakaar, vous semblez minimiser le travail qu’est en train d’abattre sur le terrain Idrissa Seck… Vous ne craignez pas de mauvaises surprises ?

Il est libre et peut abattre un travail sur le terrain. Nous le faisons tous les jours. Nous avons la conviction de pouvoir gagner les élections. Maintenant, je ne vais pas comparer un aventurier à la quiétude. Mon candidat rassure par ses positions du passé et du présent sans oublier son bilan. Donc, avec Idrissa Seck, ce sont deux équations qui ne sont pas comparables. Il ne faut pas comparer le vice et la vertu. Idy symbolise la tortuosité de par ses positions contraires à la morale. Il explique aux Sénégalais et nous, nous présenterons un bilan. Mais, il ne devrait pas aborder certains thèmes par décence. C’est lui qui a fait couper des arbres à 500.000 Cfa l’unité à son beau-frère. Il ne fait que se dédire. Combien de fois il a quitté Wade avant de le retrouver ? Il aime parler de savoir, mais est-ce qu’il sait quelque chose ? Je ne dis pas qu’il faut être diplômé pour diriger le pays. L’exemple de Lula au Brésil est patent. Mais Idrissa Seck a menti. Qui a déjà vu un ancien camarade de classe de M. Seck ? Avec qui il était à Princeton ? Il doit se taire. En tout cas, il ne m’a jamais contredit. Il ne travaille pas et maintient le même niveau de vie. D’où est-ce qu’il sort son argent ?

 

Et les autres ténors de l’opposition comme Sonko, Abdoul Mbaye, Malick Gakou, ne les craignez-vous pas ?

Nous les prenons au sérieux, c’est tout. Ils font leur travail et il appartient aux Sénégalais de décider. Donc, que le meilleur gagne, mais que cela se fasse dans les règles d’éthique, de bonne croyance et de la foi.

 

Mais, vous avez tenté d’éliminer Malick Gakou n’est-ce pas ?

Jamais ! Malick Gakou ne dirait pas ce que vous dites, que nous avons tenté de le liquider. Jamais il ne dira que nous avons conspiré contre lui. Car, si c’était le cas, nous n’en serions pas là avec lui. Il bouge, bat campagne et fait ses déclarations.

 

Pourquoi vous ne publiez pas les autres rapports pour ouvrir d’autres procès concernant des proches ?

Le rapport de l’Ige qui a épinglé Khalifa Sall a aussi épinglé des maires de notre camp. Il y a des maires qui sont passés en Conseil de discipline budgétaire à la Cour des comptes. Ceux qui devaient rembourser l’ont fait, mais, ils n’étaient pas poursuivis pour plus d’un milliard.

 

Votre parti est secoué par des frustrations multiples et certains ruent dans les brancards. Cela ne va t-il pas vous porter préjudice ?

Non, parce que les gens qui se sont toujours battus sont encore là ! Il ne peut ne peut y avoir de frustrations. Mais, le pouvoir n’est pas un gâteau à partager non plus. Il faut condamner leur façon de faire. Il faut assumer et savoir assumer. Il y a des avancées dans le pays… Nous avons doublé les résultats… Il reste des problèmes à régler… La croissance va vers 7%, nous avons quitté 350.000 pour 950.000 tonnes de riz, sans oublier les infrastructures, le Pudc, le Puma, etc.

Il y a aussi le pétrole et le gaz qui vont jouer leur partition. Donc, il ne faut pas écouter les marchands d’illusions qui narrent le faux et font dans le faux. Maintenant, il ne pas faut oublier qu’il y a une recomposition politique dans le pays. Les gens s’organisent pour se retrouver. Mais, disons-le, il y a une personne qui se nomme Barthélemy Dias qui reste constant dans ses positions.

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